• dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
    5013·
    11 days ago

    I realize that this is a very hot political season. Its impossible to keep a “good vibes” feel with this year’s election politics, so I’m not asking for “Don’t be an Ass” or other such naive statement. But please try to be on your best behavior. This is “BestOfLemmy”, and not a political debate site.

    I’ve nuked a couple of subthreads that have gotten too hot. Please report anything you think is unhelpful to the greater discussion. I’ll remove distracting posts as I see them, but I don’t promise “good moderation” here. I’m just gonna cleanup what I can see and when I see it.

    The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.

    This is my guiding principle for moderation. This isn’t a debate subsite, or debate community. I’m not necessarily interested in having everyone here complete their back-and-forth discussion (especially if it gets heated, swear words, accusatory tones, etc. etc.).

    • DrDystopia@lemy.lolEnglish
      75·
      10 days ago

      This post being presented as the best of Lemmy with all the downvote brigading for wrongthink is making me want want to leave Lemmy again. I used to run an instance a while back before the first reddit migration and just gave up (when lemmy.ml and lemmygrad was dominating the lemmyverse) and this whole mess of a post have only made it seem like everything is worse.

      And that’s after I’ve spent the last two weeks blocking users I find awful instead of spending all that time insulting and downvoting people “that have the wrong opinion”.

      Maybe the best of Lemmy is downvotes and snarky “don’t let the door hit your ass in the way out” comments? I see no point I’m mentioning what seems like the worst of Lemmy these days.

    • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.eeEnglish
      1856·
      11 days ago

      The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.

      This is what you want new people to see? “vote for my candidate or you hate America”? Propaganda bullshit? I’m sure I’ll write in a candidates name as I do every four years as, once again, neither major party is worthy of my vote, but the arrogance of people like you makes me want to vote for Trump out of spite.

    • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
      3271·
      11 days ago

      So to you, the best of Lemmy is “vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor”? And ON TOP OF THAT, you want people to accept it or get their comment deleted? What kind of reasoning is that? You could just remove such an obviously inflammatory post instead of acting in such way. Especially since you literally admitted this is not to encourage a conversation or a debate:

      This isn’t a debate subsite, or debate community. I’m not necessarily interested in having everyone here complete their back-and-forth discussion (especially if it gets heated, swear words, accusatory tones, etc. etc.).

      I’m sure new users will love to see this kind of behavior by the mods of this community

      • dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
        254·
        11 days ago

        I’m deleting the worst of posts that have degenerated into just two members insulting each other over and over again.

        You can see the topic is mostly open for your discussion. Just don’t make your posts devolve into useless bullshit and I’ll keep the posts up.

        I know it’s careful balance and it’s basically impossible to get it correct on political topics. But I’ll do my best.

        I’m simply being honest here. I’m not going to let 5+ posts of insults just stay around here. But this is also a topic with literally hundreds of comments so I’ll be making mistakes as a moderator.

        I’m not passing out bans here, yet anyway. I’m just deleting posts that have gone off the rails (as well as the threads / earlier posts that led to overheated discussion).

        • literally_a_dog@lemm.eeEnglish
          735·
          11 days ago

          It’s my second day on lemmy. I came from Reddit because their moderation is so careless.

          I am so tired of moderators using their power to police discussions, rather than keep people safe. Anyone can walk away from an argument at any time; you’re not protecting them from that. In fact, what you’re doing is silencing them at a time when they’re frustrated and have no where else to vent. They come here because they need to get it out.

          I’m going to start looking for another platform. People like you are the reason I left Reddit.

          • dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
            231·
            11 days ago

            Its almost as if the system of unpaid volunteer moderators has its limits.

            I’m here on Lemmy because as limited as the system of unpaid volunteer moderators is… its better than the CEO of Reddit who has begun to influence the discussion from the top down. If there is a system of unpaid volunteer moderators, at least they should be supported. And Lemmy seems to be place for that.

          • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
            17·
            11 days ago

            My friend, Reddit is still a worse option in my opinion.

            I mean, I literally came on this post and started calling out the mod. But you see what they did?

            I wasn’t banned. My comments weren’t deleted. Instead they engaged my talking points and tried to offer their opinion instead. I didn’t call them an asshole, they didn’t call me an idiot. We are just talking and disagreeing.

            You are never going to find anything like that over Reddit.

            Feel free to browse around the different instances though. You might disagree with the mod of this community and/or instance, but you can always find a different one that better fits your views if you think this is a dealbreaker for you.

            Finally, Lemmy is very young compared to Reddit. It doesn’t have nearly the same amount of tools available to mods, and yet it’s already more transparent with its mod logs being so open and accessible.

            Welcome to Lemmy by the way! We are trying our best lol

          • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
            141·
            10 days ago

            So… if you don’t get to say whatever you want with zero consequences, you threaten to leave?

            Enjoy the walk back to Reddit, and tell the bots we said hello!

          • TachyonTele@lemm.eeEnglish
            8·
            10 days ago

            We’re all very sad about whatever you’re being offended by when adults are in the room.

          • Entropywins@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            10 days ago

            You left reddit because of mods… not the other million things spez and co has done? Have fun on the next platform, friend.

      • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        259·
        11 days ago

        “vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor”?

        More like, vote against the conservative-fascist coalition if you don’t want the US destroyed. If you’re skeptical, we can open up any history book and read about how the German conservative-fascist ruling coalition of the 1930s turned out.

        • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
          1015·
          11 days ago

          I’m not skeptical. I know exactly what I said and your paternalistic tone is not necessary. You’re not the only one who heard of the Nazi, you know? We are all very aware.

          It’s not even about the post itself (even though it’s an extremely low effort screenshot). It’s about the fact that, a community that is supposed to showcase the best of Lemmy, is:

          1. Proudly showing that this kind of post is supposed to represent Lemmy, which would be sad
          2. Moderated by someone who legitimately is defending such low effort memes (and honestly mentality) without even pretending that it’s for the sake of engaging in a conversation.

          It’s literally just a screenshot of a comment with 4 upvotes that is proudly saying “follow my reasoning and stfu. Otherwise you hate your country”. And the mod is in the comments saying “yeah, agree with this and myself or I’ll delete your comment. I might ban you too depending on how I feel. After all, this is not a conversation”.

          And you can tell this is exactly what is happening because every single user that is pointing out how hypocritical and low effort this is, is getting downvoted to hell and called a fascist. And keep in mind, you don’t even know how I’m going to vote in all of this. You and most users here are just attacking other users because they are voicing a different opion than “vote for Harris or you’re a traitor”…Now THAT is truly the best of Lemmy: mindlessly downvoting and replying with a snarky joke.

          • dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
            161·
            11 days ago

            Part of the reason why I nuked entire discussions is because its an effective way to stop the downvoting, dogpiling, and snarkiness. I’m doing what I can here. Its a big topic, I’m not going to be here all day and I’m the only moderator. I’m ultimately going to have to trust all of you to be on better behavior when I leave to do my things today.

            Real talk. I’m trying to set up the conditions for this thread to work out even in my limited absences. I cannot promise prompt deletions or even “fairness” in these circumstances. Chances are, I’m going to come back and there’s going to be 5 hours of back-and-forth trash, downvoting, yadda yadda. I’m not an idiot, I can see and 100% expect that this will happen. When that happens, I’ll have no choice but to delete the whole sub-discussion, starting from the moment it got heated.

            And yet, this topic isn’t breaking any rule that I’ve set up ahead of time. And I’m not seeing it as such a massive problem that I need to invent a new rule to specifically nuke this particular topic. I’ve listed out my reasoning for the two rules of this community already. If you want to argue on the basis of those rules (or alternatively, if you want to propose a 3rd rule to be added), I’m willing to meta-discuss the rules with you here.

            But don’t take my “delete comment” movements for something else. Lemmy has very few tools for moderation. On other forums, I would have edited yall’s posts rather than delete them outright. I’m forced to delete because its against Lemmy’s philosophy to allow moderator-edits to posts.

            I’m not trying to make you feel bad with the “delete comment”. Its just honestly the smallest bit of action I can do on Lemmy. I’m not trying to threaten you, I’m not trying to cause anyone any kind of grief. I get it, its a political topic and you have opinions you want to get out. So talk, get them out. I’ll do what I can to keep the best of the discussions up but I’ll also be deleting the dogpiles as they come up.

        • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
          47·
          10 days ago

          That’s literally what they wrote. I even quoted them. At least read the whole comment before writing nonsense

          • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
            73·
            10 days ago

            Okay. So… I took your advice and I read their whole comment, and I’m now left to ask:

            That’s what you took from their comment?

      • tired_n_bored@lemmy.worldEnglish
        126·
        10 days ago

        “Vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor” is not an opinion anymore. You’re an American traitor if you vote for somebody who’s killing the rule of law from within. The destruction of America that Putin wants will not be militarily.

        • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
          57·
          10 days ago

          You’re not a traitor. You are just proving the point I made below in my comments about not knowing anything about the user and mindlessly accusing them. You’re also just talking about unrelated stuff since nobody has mentioned Putin, so miss me with your scare tactics and focus on what we’re talking about instead of going off your own tangent. Do better

  • RogueBanana@lemmy.zipEnglish
    692·
    11 days ago

    Idk who nuxcom is but is this really a contender for best of Lemmy? You see the same comment in every other post so is this person that special or do we have a slow day?

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zipEnglish
      284·
      11 days ago

      My vote is very much on slow day and, given a choice, would nuke this thread entirely, if that helps.

      If folk MUST steal other’s work, at least pick something that is semi-uniquely them and not literally a post made while taking a shit.

      • JimmyBigSausage@lemm.eeOPEnglish
        98·
        11 days ago

        Actually I was eating cereal but just liked how you put it. Sorry if I offended by reposting. Felt it was a compliment.

        • dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
          54·
          11 days ago

          Yeah, this is what I’m here to protect. “BestOfLemmy” isn’t a political channel. But it is a manual curation and manual sharing community.

          The idea that you like a post and feel like that’s enough to share is what I’d like to encourage. It gets weird with politics because now others are less inclined to post here because of this post however. But if the priority is to encourage posts and sharing here, I cannot delete a topic like this that was posted in good faith.

          Its not like I’ll accept all topics of political nature either, but given how close we are to the election it makes sense why you’d be thinking about this right now.

    • dragontamer@lemmy.worldMEnglish
      103·
      11 days ago

      There are two rules currently written for “BestOfLemmy”, and they are:

      1. Manual Curation – If someone thinks its best-of material, it is allowed here.

      2. Newbie to Lemmy perspective – Posts should be beneficial to new Lemmy users. I’ll ban topics on a case-by-case basis that violate this (ex: deep server vs server feuds or other “community vs community drama” topics).

      From #1: The poster clearly thinks its worth sharing, so it deserves a topic. That’s sufficient. For #2: it is a very political season (with only days remaining before the USA’s voting days), so I think most people looking into Lemmy here would forgive us for a politically charged topic like this.

      I evaluate that this topic was posted in good faith, and that newbies would accept such a topic here. So that’s why it stays.

      From a “BestOf” perspective: my main problem with the post is that it links to a picture of the post, rather than the original topic and the original discussion that created this particular post. I might make a rule against image-posts (ie: do not make unnecessary screenshots. Prefer to link to various topics and other discussions on Lemmy. Screenshots are counterproductive to the greater Lemmy community).

      • RogueBanana@lemmy.zipEnglish
        61·
        11 days ago

        I don’t disagree with the point but I have seen the same comment more than 100 times here lol. But I can see where you are coming from.

    • YeetPics@mander.xyzEnglish
      132·
      11 days ago

      Sure it’s weird.

      His vp pick fucks couches. I’d say it’s on brand.

      The whole thing is fucking weird.

      But what’s weird and what governs the future lives to be lost are separate issues entirely.

      If it’s weird and beholden to Putin, idk what else there is to say.

    • somtwo@lemmy.worldEnglish
      101·
      11 days ago

      My gut says that Putin has some very embarrassing dirt on Trump.

      Edit: is/says

    • tired_n_bored@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      10 days ago

      Putin masturbates over the thought of destroying the US. He can’t do it militarily so he does that by sowing division, spreading false narratives, putting Americans against Americans and ultimately having a US president who is his lapdog

      • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        10 days ago

        That doesn’t explain why a former president is his lapdog. Putin has his motivations which are obvious. Trump’s motivation beyond being a greedy, selfish, morally devoid asshole are not so clear.

  • starman2112@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    5219·
    11 days ago

    “If you don’t vote Harris, you hate America”

    Great way to convince the folks at hexbear and .ml to vote Trump

    • m_f@midwest.socialEnglish
      8311·
      11 days ago

      They weren’t going to vote for Harris anyways. If she magically brought peace to the middle east tomorrow, they’d find some other reason to not vote for her.

    • viking@infosec.pubEnglish
      2811·
      11 days ago

      As if anyone of them is old enough to vote. They sound like 14 at most.

    • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      156·
      11 days ago

      I mean basically everyone except usamericans somewhat hates the US. Its like a love hate relationship. Cant live with them, cant live without them.

      • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zipEnglish
        211·
        11 days ago

        Anyone in the world who doesn’t somewhat hate their own country is kind of an idiot.

    • madjo@feddit.nlEnglish
      82·
      11 days ago

      “see what you made me do? You made me do the exact opposite of what you’re asking me to do.”

      Yeah, nah, bro, that’s not how this works. They were already going to vote Trump, no matter what.

    • MisterScruffy@lemmy.mlEnglish
      54·
      11 days ago

      Refusing to vote for Harris and actually voting for Trump are 2 different things, I know you can make the argument that both lead to the same outcome but they are 2 different choices

      • JasonDJ@lemmy.zipEnglish
        4·
        11 days ago

        I mean, sure. In the same way that when you pull up to a traffic circle, you can go left or right. After all, they’ll both lead to the same place, right?

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        4·
        10 days ago

        They are two different things, in the same way that running towards a rabid dog, and sitting still while a rabid dog runs towards you, are two different things

        “I just don’t think the dog should have rabies in the first place” is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, and it’s not going to make the dog not have rabies

      • COASTER1921@lemmy.mlEnglish
        9·
        10 days ago

        Voting is already ongoing in many states, today crossed 40 million early votes. For the next 1.5wk avoiding politics and crazy advertisements for/against candidates is impossible if you live in the US. Given the size of the country and its worldwide economic dominance it’s impossible to not be impacted by US politics regardless of where you live.

  • LotrOrc@lemmy.worldEnglish
    143·
    11 days ago

    Yeah the constitution totally doesn’t need a rewrite or a few extra amendments thrown in

    • MisterScruffy@lemmy.mlEnglish
      31·
      11 days ago

      It needs to be thrown out and restarted from scratch. The status quo is not good, it is very bad and I’m suspicious of anyone who defends it

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
    155·
    10 days ago

    Won’t someone PLEASE think about the CONSTITUTION!

    Trump spent four years breaking the law and Biden spent four years not putting his ass in jail. Meanwhile, you’ve NYPD officers putting bullets into the heads of people adjacent to turnstill jumpers. You’ve got paramilitary raids on college campuses and suburban neighbors to thrash peaceful protesters. You’ve got pipeline companies stealing property with the government’s blessing, while locals blocking the illegal construction are sprayed with tear gas. You’ve got a billionaire actively buying votes three weeks before an election, while the FEC twiddles its thumbs. You’ve got illegal overseas occupation of territory from Okinawa to Al Anbar to Guantanamo Bay. You’ve got a SCOTUS that’s taking bribes to issue rulings and Congressmen taking bribes to write laws and Governors taking bribes to turn over public property to private interests.

    Whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.

    • ArchRecord@lemm.eeEnglish
      93·
      10 days ago

      Biden spent four years not putting his ass in jail.

      The president cannot escape the systems of checks & balances we have to unilaterally imprison someone.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11·
        10 days ago

        The president cannot escape the systems of checks & balances

        The DOJ took SBF from indictment to jail inside three months. They have been fucking around on the Trump indictments for over two years.

        • ArchRecord@lemm.eeEnglish
          3·
          10 days ago

          SBF’s case was completely different, since the legality of his actions was much more easily provable as a crime. Not only was every transaction on the actual blockchain, which is immutable and couldn’t have possibly been faked, but his actions didn’t exactly have any nuance that could be argued in court. There were funds, they weren’t his, but he used them. Case closed.

          Trump’s case involves not only a lot more possible statutes he could have violated, but also a lot of arbitrary actions that don’t perfectly fall into a rigid box of “this is legal” or “this is illegal.”

          Plus, if you have more money to draw out legal fights, you can keep them going for longer, regardless of your case. SBF had most of his assets confiscated since they were almost entirely from the fraud, so he didn’t have the same luxuries.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            9 days ago

            the legality of his actions was much more easily provable as a crime

            Trump was convicted of a full 37 counts in the Stormy Daniels indictment. He’s lost multiple civil cases for defamation, totaling hundred of millions in judgements. Rudy Guliani lost his law license in New York over electoral interference. And 623 of the J6ers have received sentences. The idea that these folks are difficult to prosecute is absurd. But you do need to get them in front of a jury first.

            Trump’s case involves not only a lot more possible statutes he could have violated, but also a lot of arbitrary actions that don’t perfectly fall into a rigid box of “this is legal” or “this is illegal.”

            You can wave your hands at the legal system and insist “Its too hard!”, as so many in the Democratic Party have already done. But in the few cases where Trump or his minions do actually get in front of a jury, they consistently lose.

            Plus, if you have more money to draw out legal fights

            OJ’s original criminal legal team bankrupted him. Once he was out of cash, he started losing courtroom fights. He eventually ended up in jail for assaulting a Vegas pawn shop owner over some illegally fenced sports memorabilia.

            Trump’s been involved in substantially more criminal activity and could be prosecuted significantly more than The Juice. But cases have to go to trial first. We have 91 indictments, but only one case that’s made it through a full trial, in large part because federal prosecutors are dragging their heels.

        • ArchRecord@lemm.eeEnglish
          2·
          10 days ago

          That ruling does not affect the ability of the president to put someone else in jail, unilaterally, of their own decision.

  • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    135·
    11 days ago

    Personally I don’t think it’s helpful to treat a slavers’ pact like how some people treat the bible.

    I couldn’t give less of a turd about a constitution, especially one that’s been the source of endless oppression and genocide. It’s a fundamental reason why the usa is such a trash heap.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      10 days ago

      Article V cries out to be invoked. The most important part of the document and the least regularly employed.

    • bignate31@lemmy.worldEnglish
      21·
      10 days ago

      vote Kamala. anything else will make you hate everywhere else in addition to America :D

  • RangerJosie@lemmy.worldEnglish
    72·
    10 days ago

    Ok, but what if I hated America before Chump lowered himself from TV host to Presidential Candidate?

    Like back in the G-Dub days I was asking Tshirt shops if they’d make “Death to America” shirts for me. (Only ever found 2 btw which was very brave of them in post 9/11 USA)