PouraDifficFairePire

And you may be interested to know what kind of government Taiwanese had until 1987(, as well as Hong-Kong before 1984), or not, i’m just saying. Bye :)

Once again diprount_tomato was talking about countries outside of the u.s.s.r., those inside were there before, sometimes for centuries. But even inside the u.s.s.r., they weren’t forced to stay once it dislocated, despite being much more integrated than the u.k. ever was, not sure we could tell the same about the u.s.a. if one of your states decided to leave

For Finland, you’re absolutely right for the first link you provided about the Winter war, thank you very much for the correction, i already knew about the Molotov cocktails named after their enemy so i should have remembered, seems like they were still salty about this loss of territory, i.d.k., yet i also provided arguments in favor of an initial “hunky dory” relation, it’s possible that it degraded over time for reasons other than merely territorial, perhaps like in Ukraine, i wouldn’t be surprised if Finland was used as an anti-communist spearhead and that security reasons weren’t that much of an excuse. Some further reading would need to be done.

As for the baltic states, they were in the russian empire as well, before the u.s.s.r., you can’t blame them for refusing to destroy everything once they took power, we wouldn’t have done so in their position.
And once again Poland wasn’t part of the u.s.s.r., cf. my remarks on the puppet states if that’s the road you want to take. I could agree that states of the Warsaw pact were influenced by their leaders just like countries in the n.a.t.o. are influenced by their american leader. What you called soviet invasion and american liberation would have been called exactly the opposite by the french communists.

This list doesn’t only mention coups, but this source mentions 50.000 american soldiers on chinese soil, while that one talks about 100.000.
(And the korean war was the main excuse to prevent them from recovering Taiwan, not the civil war)

Why would it be b.s. to start with China ? You do know that they would have recovered Taiwan more than 70 years ago if it wasn’t for the american naval forces ?
But whatever, i can’t force you to open your eyes, do what you consider to be just, and thanks for reading my comments.

I included these graphs because people are saying that communism doesn’t work, which is why we have to sanction them to death, for their own good(, and also because all of our enemies are dictators, what a coincidence, that’s a manipulation easy to disprove, old allies are suddenly depicted as authoritarians as soon as they change allegiances, while true authoritarians aren’t talked about, N.Chomsky and many others already proved this over and over).
Freedom has always been our sole argument, without which we have nothing left to defend our side. And it’s not even a good one since poverty is slavery, “freely” working to fatten our annuitants lord capitalists. The entrepreneurial freedom isn’t that bad though, we all have to learn from each other and i would prefer for all ideologies to cohabit together instead of only one of them imposing his unique view. Think it was Hegel who said that theses need antitheses in order to evolve into better syntheses.

I haven’t lived under the Stasi’s threat so for all i know i may be wrong and you may be right about the accusations of authoritarianism. It’s easy to prove that their paranoia wasn’t delusional though, they faced more powerful countries(, remember McCarthyism when the u.s.a. still thought that they were in a dangerous position, kinda isolated/outnumbered ? As stupid as it may seem, i quickly read the short comic “superman : red son”, and was pleasantly surprised to see that the author depicted an authoritarian u.s.a. once it began to lose the cold war, with economic difficulties, state separatism, …, that’s an honest take which should probably be kept in mind when discussing the soviet’s alleged authoritarianism, the only thing we remember about their society)
And our representatives were elected by a population who believed our propaganda when it celebrated the west achievements while omitting the soviets ones, when it vilified the soviet’s actions and omitted our numerous misdeeds, …
My point about authoritarianism is that it isn’t inherent to communist ideals(, on the contrary, “democratic socialism in deeds and not in words” has a meaning), and since «whomever wants to drown his dog accuses him of rage», i’m almost certain that they were exagerated, Solzhenitsyn wasn’t celebrated around the West for humanitarian reasons.
When you see how many impossible odds the u.s.s.r. had to face before the second world war you can understand their authoritarianism, understandable in war conditions, and the Moscow trials were during the Spanish civil war, Trostkyists were indeed traitors collaborating against communists, including in Asia, while the black book of communism with its 100M death claims has been abundantly debunked, gulags were a sad thing of course but opposing communism “because freedom” is idiotic, i’m sorry.

As for Syria, we both share an insignificant portion of the pain felt by the syrians, but i blame the west for opposing Bachar al-Assad(, elected by his population), while you blame him for not submitting. Fortunately Russia helped, we wouldn’t consider V.Putin a dictator if he was aligned with our actions around the globe, i could give you as many surveys as you want proving that he didn’t ever needed to cheat in the elections, contrary to our usual propaganda about our enemies, etc.

They were a part of the Warsaw pact, not the u.s.s.r., if they called dibs over the territory they would have the same leader.
For the accusations of puppet states see the answer you replied to, i could say the same about n.a.to., the c.i.s., the e.u., … How to be united in diversity is an interesting topic of conversation

As for Finland, not only was it not invaded by the communists, but they were the ones signing its independence from the russian empire.

Was the u.s.s.r. a country or a union ? Even modern Russia is a federation, we don’t accuse the e.u. of having invaded other european countries, that’s partly why this topic of “diverse yet united” is so interesting.

Yeah i know(, that it’s a “far”-right political party(, not nazi, or else it’s hidden)), people dissatisfied with the current situation are voting either “extreme”-right or “extreme”-left, because what they understand the most is that they want to experiment a new situation, hoping that it will be better than the current one, the famous “protest vote”. That’s why poor people are voting far-right against their own interests, as if it’d solve their socio-economic problems(, i’m obviously biased in this assessment).

As a german, you already know that communism was very popular in Germany during the 20s(, Marx&Engels came from there after all), and that nazis were fighting them in the street, there were deaths every week between them. Capitalist’s medias saw the growing popular disdain for the center and took an easy choice.

WHAT ?
Oh man, it is the number one “policeman” by far. Here’s an example :
Here’s a longer list if you’re interested : https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md
Here’s a source from the congress itself, even if it doesn’t include covert/unofficial operations it’s still quite lengthy : https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/details?prodcode=R42738
I.d.k., what more proofs do you want ?

And were you still talking about Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary in your last comment ? Because they weren’t in the u.s.s.r. but in a military/… alliance, like n.a.t.o., the e.u., or the c.i.s. Is it because their republics were different than ours ? It’d be another talk then.

She wasn’t simply not invited anymore is she ?

Wow, the famous “free world”

yes i had, a few years ago.

Here’s the double-check :
In 1990 (source)

2 years ago (source) :

Hum, they liberated them from nazi Germany ? Are you talking about the Warsaw Pact ?
Still angry at Yugoslavia for not supporting more actively the greek communists, you know which side the “free world” was on in the greek case(, and you can bet that the soviets wouldn’t have let Franco stay in power if their victory wasn’t stolen).
If you’re saying that they installed puppet governments, why can’t i say that the u.s.a. installed puppet governments in western Europe after they prevented the u.s.s.r. from liberating the rest of Europe from rentier capitalism ?

They had their share, but it’s at the very least 10 times less, certainly even more, than the west. Do you have some examples in mind ?
However yes, they supported what they called the “liberation movement” from the “exploitative bourgeoisie”, and failed almost every time once the west reacted. They didn’t thought about it as defending their own interests, but acting in solidarity with other workers.
If you’re talking about Afghanistan then they had the support of the government, just like France in Mali a few years ago(, who kept putting forward this argument in the malian case, but almost certainly ignored it with afghans)(, in any case afghans hate the west as well now, it’s one of my favourite countries, pledging to become islamic/virtuous, critised for being too different and allegedly immoral).

The examples are almost endless, but it’s worth noting that it was revealed two days ago that the west supported Imran Khan’s arrest, thousands of kilometers from our borders. Do you know how the u.s.a.(, and western Europe really,) was called in my highscool ? The policemen of the world. What seemed like a harsh criticism was in fact a dull euphemism.

Just saw this today (source if you have an hour to lose) :

B.t.w., here’s the article, but we should still be wary of the statistics, one of them is in current prices while the other is in p.p.p.
Furthermore, i’m not sure that the g.d.p. is the best way to estimate the economic power of a state, there may be biases if, e.g., a capitalist economy leads to an artificial augmentation through the different capitalistic rents, i.d.k.
Even by these standards, the u.s.s.r. did better than the ex-colonies (source) and most of the world , despite having a more democratic workplace, better working conditions, sanctions, …, and military is such a waste of money while we could unite, and use this money for so much more.
I’ve seen that germans are quite active here, as well as on reddit, frenchs only arrive third as non-english speakers, it’s a bit weird not to hear more about Spain&Portugal or Italy, 🤷‍♂️
I’d say that i’m french but i.d.k. if i’m entirely identifying with my country anymore, what’s certain is that i’m identifying with the classic(pre-XIXth) authors of western Europe, may i ask why you were happy that Berlin had to be excluded :) ?

There’s so many arguments explaining why they were the one responsible for this wall

And everyone in 1989 talked about the lack of bananas in the eastern part without realising that the western sanctions were responsible for this absence. People aren’t naturally ignorant
And they grew at the same rate despite socialism never working(, both sides were helped, but one of them was under sanctions and without any neocolonial help, a higher military burden, etc.)

Not forgetting that eastern germans(, who saw their shared properties stolen by western capitalists b.t.w.,) are still unapologetically voting left ever since

I’ve learned in highscool that Stalin was disfigured by some kind of disease but modified the photographs, that was a western lie still taught more than half a century after his death, i’ve also been taught that if someone stopped clapping first they were at a high risk of being deported, which was why rounds of applause could last a long time, i was naive enough not to have doubts. I didn’t know that we were the most propagandised population in the world back then, something that most readers would disagree with(, if you cite north korea it’ll even more point out (y)our ignorance&propagandization).

If you (dis)agree, then just ask yourself what’s contained in the medias of our proclaimed enemies(, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Cuba, and any leftist south american, Zimbabwe, ~Burundi, ~‘Central African Republic’, ~Congo, ~Somalia, Sudan, and so many more african countries, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Palestine, and even Lebanon because of the Hezbollah, Afghanistan, Russia, China, North Korea, Belarus, Serbia, and too many others that i’ve ignored, if i’m taking the last 100 years then we’ve oppressed every single country at one point or another, including Ukraine when it elected pro-russian leaders. Read them and you’ll understand that we’re at the very least as propagandised as they are(, if not more, like i suppose, because they know our dominant point of view, cited in their articles, while we totally ignore theirs).

deleted by creator

Does anyone know how to save pictures on this app ?