1.8 Million Barrels of Oil a Day Avoided from Electric Vehicles::Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! We love covering electric … [continued]
I’d take diesel train infrastructure over electric cars any day
Or… Electric trains? Perhaps?
(And the good ones with overhead lines not the shitty battery ones)
Diesel can keep going when there is a power outage even if it is just enough to get people to safety.
I wonder if anybody is doing electric trains with onboard emergency diesel generators. They wouldn’t need to be able to move the train at full speed. They would just need to be able to get the train moving to the next station or whatever, in the event of a prolonged outage or damage to infrastructure.
thats not what I mean. Of course they would best but either option is better than EVs. Diesel trains are cheaper tho
Both would be good.
Not through cities. We need clean running options in densly populated areas
Thats not my point, my point is that dirty running trains are better than clean running cars.
That’s a drop in the ocean compared to the total oil produced every single day.
Actually, in 2022 there were 94m barrels produced globally per day. So this is 2%. Statistically, not insignificant. Hopefully it’ll continue to grow rapidly.
How the fuck do you people think these electric vehicles are powered?
Depends where you are. In the US as a whole (so this varies heavily state-to-state), about 60% fossil fuels
In France, about 6% fossil fuels.
And it looks like even if the car is charged partly by fossil fuels the power generation for an electric car is cleaner than running a gas car in 95% of the world.
I appreciate you coming with the numbers.
I would have to dig to find it, but I remember reading years ago in a Car and Driver article that EV’s powered by even the dirtiest coal power plants will still return around 30 MPGe, which is better than most vehicles on the road today.
Granted that article was from before the Hummer EV, so I’m sure that number will have changed somewhat.
i would love for the United States to build more nuclear power plants and get this percentage down!
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Don’t bother. Reading, logic and facts are not their strong point.
As you’ve seen they just lie and say something back which you clearly didn’t mean and continue to live in the ignorance bubble they have created for themselves.
It does no good to try to explain anyway. When you explain that mining all the shit that goes into making the batteries for these cars, it completely offsets whatever exaggerated gain they make. Not only that, but the incredible human cost as well. But you just go ahead and feel good about yourself and your shitty “green” cars.
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wtf?
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let’s just continue to exploit entire continents of people though right? i mean if it makes YOUR neighborhood “green” it’s ok to ignore all that.
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Telling someone to go kill themselves… stay classy Lemmy.
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hurry, backpedal!
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Electricity usually.
In all seriousness, even if the electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, that’s still preferable to burning them locally via internal combustion in a car’s engine.
The pollution is one place, so is easier to manage/capture and a power plant is much more efficient than your car can hope to be, actually reducing overall usage and pollution for the same energy output.
oh so pollution is ok as long as it’s not in your backyard and happening in a confined locale… got it.
No dumbass, that’s very clearly not what I said nor what I was implying, and you know that.
If the pollution is being produced in one area then we can actually capture and reduce the overall level of pollution which is produced.
However, if we continue to use ICE cars then pollution will be scattered all over the place and there will be more of it as cars are less efficient than power stations.
And in the mean time, we can of course transition over to renewables. The EV will happily accept power from both.
See how that works?
Try thinking just a little bit before responding. Legit felt like I was talking to a petulant child just there
It’s VERY clearly exactly what you said and i quote… “The pollution is one place, so is easier to manage/capture”
If it’s so easy to capture why care if we’re burning coal or natural gas? just capture it. just control it. it’s so easy right? how is the burning of fossil fuels even “captured” at a rate that is even viable?
But I didn’t say:
pollution is ok as long as it’s not in your backyard and happening in a confined locale…
Nor did I imply otherwise. Stop lying you colossal piece of shit.
I am saying that there would be less pollution overall running EVs which are charged by fossil fueled power stations compared to running ICE cars for the reasons I have already clearly explained and I see other commentators have already attempted to explain to you.
It is overall a better solution. If we magically waved a magic wand and swapped every ICE on the road with an EV it would be overall better for everyone, even if the power source was from burning stuff to make it
And yes, having power stations, which are usually not in dense residential areas is better as less people are breathing in the smoke at high concentrations.
And those are the facts. It’s really simple if you actually read all of what I fucking wrote. Idiot.
It still wouldn’t be a proper long term solution. I’m not saying that.
Do you understand now or are you going to keep ignoring the very simple point?
It must be so nice living in your level of ignorance and willfully completely ignoring literally half of the points being presented to you.
Does it always work for you to just try and insult your way to making a point? You’ve lost all credibility if you can’t make a point without doing so. I’ve not once called you a name, insulted your intelligence in any way, yet you think this is a acceptable way to not only debate a topic, but win an argument. I pity not only you personally, but those around you that have to put up with this behavior on an every day basis. On to your points.
If you were to snap your fingers and make all internal combustion engines into electric vehicles, it would overwhelmingly overload our current grid. To compensate, you’d need to build many more powerplants and burn much more fuels to not only take up the slack just for vehicles, but for everyday household use as well. This would pollute even more. By adding the numerous new power plants, you’d have those be closer to neighborhoods than they are now. It’s a simple numbers game. One thing arguments like yours never seem to take into account is cause and effect. You seem to be completely ok with more pollution and raping of our environment as long as it’s not right there staring you in the face. You’re seemingly ok with exploiting an entire continent’s worth of people just so you don’t see some gasses escape a vehicle in front of your quaint home.
Really, I still don’t understand why you think I’m mischaracterizing what you’ve said because you’ve gone ahead and reiterated it here AGAIN. If it makes you so incredibly angry to read what you’ve written, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and try thinking all the way through your ideal situations. I don’t know how else to put it. You’ve admitted TWICE in this reply that you’re ok with pollution as long as it’s not near your home. I’m not lying about anything here. I’m simply restating what you’re saying.
Does it always work for you to just try and insult your way to making a point?
You started it. I just returned the favour and was more overt.
You’ve lost all credibility if you can’t make a point without doing so. I’ve not once called you a name, insulted your intelligence in any way,
More lies. You very clearly said that I said something I did not say or insinuate. This was a very clear and deliberate act.
yet you think this is a acceptable way to not only debate a topic, but win an argument.
Again, you started it.
I pity not only you personally, but those around you that have to put up with this behavior on an every day basis
Take a look in the mirror.
To compensate, you’d need to build many more powerplants and burn much more fuels to not only take up the slack just for vehicles, but for everyday household use as well. This would pollute even more.
No, it would be less pollution. As I’ve already explained. Power stations pollute less than ICE cars for the same energy output.
The fictional situation I described would be less pollution
Again: read what I said.
By adding the numerous new power plants, you’d have those be closer to neighborhoods than they are now.
No reason that has to be the case.
You seem to be completely ok with more pollution and raping of our environment as long as it’s not right there staring you in the face.
I did not say that.
I specifically said it would be less pollution. Which part of this are you not understanding?
The entire continent would be better off as there would be less pollution.
Which part of that is so difficult for your tiny mind to understand? How are you struggling to comprehend this very basic point?
Everyone else I have spoken to about this has understood it very easily. You are the only one whl struggles with it
You’re seemingly ok with exploiting an entire continent’s worth of people just so you don’t see some gasses escape a vehicle in front of your quaint home.
Another lie.
I’ve put my money where my mouth is. I have a fairly large solar installation. I’m getting a heat pump installed. My gas will be cut off soon and my car is an EV which is charged either by my solar panels or my grid connection which is 100% green (according to my supplier)
Twice in as many paragraphs you’ve just made up stuff about me as a thinly vieled insult. Something you claim is beneath and you “feel sorry” for me for doing.
You are massive hypocrite. The only difference is that I overtly called you a cunt.
Really, I still don’t understand why you think I’m mischaracterizing what you’ve said
Because you are. And the record clearly shows that. To which I’ve explained multiple times but funnily enough you never acknowledge what I actually said.
because you’ve gone ahead and reiterated it here AGAIN.
Because I’ve attempted no less than three times to explain it.
Sadly I cannot make you understand the very basic point.
That’s on you, not me.
One more time:
EVs being powered by fossil fulled power stations would be overall better for the environment compared to ICE cars and EVs not existing as there would be less pollution overall.
I am not saying this is the ideal situation. We should still transition to renewables
If it makes you so incredibly angry to read what you’ve written, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and try thinking all the way through your ideal situations.
Hypocrisy is a strong point for yourself it seems. Shame logic isn’t.
You’ve admitted TWICE in this reply that you’re ok with pollution as long as it’s not near your home.
Nope. I specifically said the exact opposite. I shall once again state the the overall pollution would be lower!
Yet again you have lied about what I said and the point I was making.
I’m not lying about anything here.
The record here says otherwise.
And this is why I’m insulting you: because you deserve it. You lie again and again about my very clear intent. So I’m calling you a cunt. Because you deserve it.
I can see you did the exact same thing to another commenter in this thread.
You are the problem. Not us.
It must be wonderful to just ignore half of what is said to you and continue to live in your bubble of ignorance.
If you reply with another pack of lies, I shall simply block you. I have a feeling you won’t be able to help yourself as you’ll want the “last word” but I won’t waste any more time on you if you continue on this idiotic route. Moron.
Magic 🧝♂️
That’s the way most people look at it.
Yeah… Really want to bring that down staggeringly?
STOP DRIVNG A GODDAMN CAR FOR SUB 5 MILE TRIPS AND START USING BIKES, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION FOR LONGER TRIPS, AND YOUR LEGS FOR, YOU KNOW, TEO BLOCKS.
While at it, all the American continent should start redesigning their cities. Everything is designed for cars only, it’s all unsustainable.
While at it, all the American continent should start redesigning their cities. Everything is designed for cars only, it’s all unsustainable.
This, ban stroads, end climate change. Force companies to solve the housing issues and mandate de-gentrification. Bam, we all have a future, we can afford homes, WFH becomes truly optional and RTO policies don’t ruin livelihoods. It would be the next thing down from curing cancer, ending world hunger, and truly being the E in DEI for all.
Force companies to solve the housing issues and mandate de-gentrification.
These two things are opposites though?
Yeah well you cant expect consistent ideas.
>end climate change
*laughs in China*
Fuck.
Have an upvote.
The downvotes are from the conservative astroturfers that have been busy making Lemmy into more of a shithole like Reddit.
Also people who have places to go, things to carry or don’t live in places friendly to bikes. Maybe even people who think writing things in all caps is lazy. Not everything is caused by the conservative boogieman. Both nuance and effective communication are important.
The commenter said for short haul distances. Going to the store around the corner? You don’t need to bring the pickup truck (statistically, in North America, that’s probably the vehicle you drive).
Right, I don’t need a pickup truck, but I do need a trunk to put my groceries in to feed my entire family. I also need to do it quickly. They said 5 miles, that’s a long way.
is less oil dug up and burned?
Why did feel a need to poohpooh electric cars for such a weird reason?
if there is no difference in the actual oil extraction and burning, then it does no good.
A little less yeah, considering that there has been an increase in renewables for grid power, also it’s much more efficient burn oil/natgas/etc. in a big powerplant than in an ICE car, so less is needed overall.
So yes. It does help. But electric trains are still better lol And we need more renewable grid power
less is needed overall.
So yes. It does help
this is what i’m dubious about. just because less is burned in, say, passenger vehicles does not mean any less is produced or burned in some other industry. this article actually says that we made more oil this year than last.
But it does mean less was produced for and burned by the automotive industry
All other things equal if those EVs were ICE then even more oil would have been used for what should be obvious reasons
then even more oil would have been used
if the oil is in the ground, it can’t have been used.
Do you think we literally use oil as we dig it up with no buffer?
Or that oil extraction amount isn’t being constantly adjusted based on demand by every entity in charge of it?
Or that if more ICE vehicles were on the road more oil would be needed?
These are all very basic concepts
i think there is no way to prove we would have dug up and burned any more oil than we did since we can’t prove a counterfactual. what we do know is, despite an increased use of electric vehicles, oil extraction increased.
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unless it actually decreased GHG emissions, it did no good. it’s rearranging the deck chairs.
Let’s be straight about this: It ain’t electric cars. Its e-bikes
I’ll take a bike over a car any day, but for people who were going to drive? An electric vehicle will save oil usage over an ICE one.
Still a vehicle in a pure sense.
Yeah which is always weird. How many of those people weren’t just riding normal bikes before vs downsizing from a car. I’m on my 3rd EV and would love to bike if it were an option where I live, but if I went with a bike, I’d just be replacing another EV.
Assuming you could feasibly bike, it would probably still be environmentally better to use the bike, mostly because it is more energy efficient at moving a single human places because it doesn’t have to move a whole car frame, and in most places a fair amount of power is still from fossil fuels, so less would be needed. Also the other benefits of biking.
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I go to work 50/50 by electric car or analog bike. Most of those barrels saved it’s me
This is bullshit where is the proof also the electric batteries are mined by.kids in.the cpngo
I assume you’re talking about Colbalt mining? It was difficult to decipher your meaning.
Zero colbalt in a modern LFP battery which some cars are now using. Other battery chemistries do still use it, such as the device you used to type out your comment.
Colbalt is also used in the production of gasoline. And when it’s used, it’s used: more is required to refine more fuel. Whereas the colbalt in a battery remains useful again and again every time you recharge a battery.
So if you want to be mad about it, remember to be mad at your own usage as well.
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