ou might have seen that we’ve been defederated from beehaw.org. I think there’s some necessary context to understand what this means to the users on this instance.
How federation works
The way federation works is that the community on beehaw.org is an organization of posts, and you’re subscribed to it despite your account being on lemmy.world. Now someone posts on that community (created on beehaw.org), on which server is that post hosted?
It’s hosted on both! It’s hosted on any instance that has a subscriber. It’s also hosted on lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml, etc. Every instance that has a subscriber is going to have a copy of this post. That’s why if you host your own instance, you’ll often get a ton of text data just in your own server.
And the copies all stay in sync with each other using ActivityPub. So you’re reading the post that’s host on lemmy.world, and someone with an account on beehaw.org is reading the same post on beehaw.org, and the posts are kept in sync via ActivityPub. Whenever someone posts to that community or comments on a post, that data is shared to all the versions across the fediverse, and these versions are kept in sync. So up until 5 hours ago, they were the same post!
“True”-ness
A key concept that will matter in the next section is the idea of a “true” version. Effectively, one version of these posts is the “true” version, that every other community reflects. The “true” version is the one hosted on the instance that hosts the community. So the “true” version of a beehaw.org community post is the one actually hosted on beehaw.org. We have a copy, but ours is only a copy. If you post to our copy, it updates the “true” version on beehaw.org, and then all the other instances look to the “true” version on beehaw to update themselves.
The same goes for communities hosted on lemmy.world or lemmy.ml. Defederation affects how information is shared between instances. If you keep track of where the “true” version is hosted, it becomes a lot easier to understand what is going on.
How defederation works
Now take that example post from earlier, the one on beehaw.org. The “true” version of the post is on beehaw.org but the post is still hosted on both instances (again, it has a copy hosted on all instances). Let’s say someone with an account on beehaw.org comments on that post. That comment is going to be sent to every version of that post via ActivityPub, as the “true” version has been updated. That is, every version EXCEPT lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. So users on lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works won’t get that comment, because we’ve been defederated from beehaw.org. If we write a comment, it will only be visible from accounts on lemmy.world, because we posted to a copy, but our copy is now out of sync with the “true” version. So we can appear to interact with the post, but those interactions are ONLY visible by other lemmy.world accounts, since our comments aren’t send to other versions. As the “true” version is hosted on beehaw, and we no longer get beehaw updates due to defederation, we will not see comments from ANY other community on those posts (including from other defederated instances like sh.itjust.works).
The same goes for posting to beehaw communities. We can still do that. However, the “true” version of those communities are the ones on beehaw, so our posts will not be shared to other instances via ActivityPub. And all of this is true for Beehaw users with our communities. Beehaw users can continue to see and interact with Lemmy.world communities, but those interactions are only visible to other Beehaw users, since the “true” versions of the Lemmy.world communities (the ones sent to/synced with every other instance) is the Lemmy.world one.
Communities on other instances, for example lemmy.ml, are unaffected by this. Lemmy.world and beehaw.org users will still be able to interact with those communities, but posts/comments from lemmy.world users won’t be visible to beehaw.org users, as defederation prevents our posts/comments from being sent to the version of these posts hosted on beehaw.org. However, as the “true” version is the one on the third instance, we can still see everything from beehaw.org users. So we see a more filled in version than the beehaw users.
I can understand wanting to have a well-moderated community.
What I don’t understand is how they expect to do that with a moderation team of just 4 people.
I guess now people will just leave Beehaw, its communities that were popular here will be replaced by others in the Fediverse and life will go on. The Fediverse is built to be resilient to such changes.
The crazy part is that they want to be able to view and comment on other instances’ posts but not vice versa.
Like why should other instances agree to that?
Hopefully beehaw dies off quickly.
Yeah, the level of entitlement is insane.
Hopefully beehaw dies off quickly.
I don’t get why you hope for this? Isn’t the point of fediverse to have lot of different instances for different people?
Beehaw will continue existing as it chooses to exist, with or without lemmy.world. Isn’t that a good thing? That’s decentralization. That’s what we want more of.
I disagree. It’s like a poorly implemented private subreddit. People didn’t complain that that was possible before and I don’t see why they should now.
Oh I completely agree, there’s nothing wrong with wanting well-moderated communities. But their way of going about doing it makes absolutely no sense.
I don’t think you’re technically wrong, but I think with the reddit migration it’s overall damaging to the concept of a fediverse to have a large instance defederate with two huge instances.
There are people who are just getting settled only to find out they now have to use two accounts to access the content they needed one for yesterday.
They are fine with being a small community. They aren’t interested in growth for growth’s sake. They existed for 18 months with around 200 members and were content with that continuing indefinitely. They aren’t against growth, they simply don’t value it highly.
I saw on one of their post that they now have 36 mods
The idea is that every instance is basically responsible for their own users. And beehaw didn’t have confidence in the moderation of shit just works and lemmy.world and couldn’t keep up with banning them on their side. Thats why they defederated.
The idea is that every instance is basically responsible for their own users.
It’s correct what you say, but the idea bugs me the more I understand it.
It feels like guilt by association. The actual cause is the behaviour of specific, individual users but the repercussions are equally felt by other users from the same instance. These other users can have nothing in common with the causing users, or might have even opposed them in their wrongdoings.
There is also a level between users and instances; communities. Maybe the problem was with one specific community, yet all other communities who happen to live on the same instance feel the same consequences.
Defederating individual communities would feel better for me, but ultimately I think a problem caused by individuals should be solved with these individuals, not with groups which are more or less meaningfully associated with those individuals.
undefined> It feels like guilt by association. The actual cause is the behaviour of specific, individual users but the repercussions are equally felt by other users from the same instance.
That’s why I always thought that the ideal scenario for federated web is to have instances that are either single-user or are down to friends-of-friends level of members (say, under 100 users per instance), so that there can be social accountability and if you have a bad actor on your instance, then it’s easy to kick them out and preserve your reputation. Bad actors will concentrate on their own instances and they can be defederated without collateral damage.
So, if Beehaw’s registration model is invite-only (that’s what I gather from this thread), then I think they probably have the right approach to federation; they are vouching for their users and they are responsible for making sure that they won’t be damaging communities across the federation.
Unfortunately Lemmy doesn’t have that kind of fine tuned control yet
The problem is that we don’t just have individuals but anonymous individuals. Even if you block, ban and defederate users if they can just turn around and put a +1 on the end of their Gmail account and go on spamming, and posting unwanted content. You have to act against the people enabling this.
There is a reason why some moderation tools aren’t available yet but a application system is. The fediverse is not supposed to be a group of unaccountable anonymous individuals. It’s supposed supposed to be an actual market place of ideas with bars where if your customers shit on the tables all the time the local health department will shut you down.
It feels like guilt by association. The actual cause is the behaviour of specific, individual users but the repercussions are equally felt by other users from the same instance.
As I understand the problem from their side is that to get an account on Beehaw, you have to go through an approval process. If a user there starts violating their policies, they can be banned and it’s harder and slower to make a new account to get around the van because of the approval process. But getting an account on the other two instances is automatic and instantaneous. If a person from this instance starts violating Beehaw policies in a post there, and Beehaw mods ban them, they can make a new account here and be back there causing trouble in seconds, which is apparently what some people did.
The moderation tools are apparently pretty coarse right now, so they could essentially ignore it or defederate from us, and they chose the latter.
People out to specifically troll beehaw will just keep going to other instances until beehaw completely blocks itself off from the entire fediverse.
I don’t think the solution here is to defederate, but just to get more moderators (and better mod tools).
It won’t. There will be likely lots of cases of mod abuse that ends up pushing users away. Moderation requires a healthy balance, not an extreme of either side. Lots of Reddit subs had similar issues, but they at least benefited from the overall growth of the platform itself to fill the previous slots with new users.
Yeah having 4 mods for something this large isn’t realistic, though I also understand they have problems with the moderation tools. Hopefully they can find more mods and lemmy can get better tools. I think once that happens they are considering refederation.
As much as it seems like a bone headed decision I can understand why they made it and that they probably didn’t have much choice given the resources theu have. I suggested to them that they should consider a whitelist/invite only system of users from certain instances instead. I haven’t heard back from the mods on that but another user has already tried to shoot me down.
Edit: I have been told a whitelist isn’t currently supported by Lemmy.
A lot of people are missing the point of their defederation, which is a lack of proper moderation team and tools for the sudden scale they are exposed to as one of the most popular place of discussion with the rexxit with them harboring some of the most active communities around.
Their issue is mainly bad actors, trolls and harassers coming from those big instances and overwhelming them.
Defederation is the big-nuke symptom of a wider fediverse problem, a lack of moderation tools and readiness for scale, that I also saw happen a lot on Mastodon. I followed the infosec instance and they basically ended up having to defederate the biggest mastodon instances for a few days at a time when stuff like spam and cryptobro DMs ran rampant. I’ve received many of those so I can tell you that it’s pretty real.
Construing their decision as a desire to fracture the community is missing the actual reason they’ve tried to articulate. It’s a temporary stopgap for the 4 admins who just weren’t expecting the sort of volume and associated misbehaving problems they are suddenly getting.
Overall, Lemmy is getting through a pretty intense “shit just got real” moment. Please bear with it, people are working really hard at solving this from what I can see.
This is the first time I’ve heard someone call the exodus from reddit “rexxit.” I haven’t been on lemmy too much yet so maybe it’s a common term I I’ve just missed but I love it.
I’m by no means the one who coined it. I just read it someplace else, but I find it fitting too!
Construing their decision as a desire to fracture the community is missing the actual reason they’ve tried to articulate. It’s a temporary stopgap for the 4 admins who just weren’t expecting the sort of volume and associated misbehaving problems they are suddenly getting.
Thanks for this explanation, this makes a lot of sense and makes me less concerned about the whole thing.
Serious question though, if a server defederates, do the communities hosted on other servers just become completely un-moderated? This seems like a serious liability for the overall community.
Serious question though, if a server defederates, do the communities hosted on other servers just become completely un-moderated? This seems like a serious liability for the overall community.
I’m not the most savvy person there but it simply means to me that the defederated server cannot post or interact with the matching server. Moderation still works on both ends, enacted by their respective teams. This is akin to a server-wide “mute” button directed to content from another server.
There are plenty of instances that let you sign up instantly. To achieve that goal, they’d need de-federate with all such instances. Which they can, but I still think that’s a bad idea.
I believed their intentions were good at first, until I’ve read/seen how they treat users who dissent at all, and even chastise and accuse users who ask for clarification of rules as outing themselves as a bigot. That includes admin responses to users there genuinely asking about rules with terribly vague wording…
That place is on a fast tract to becoming a shit reddit says clone; not a clone of reddit in general…
I’ve seen SRS, neogaf and resetera follow that sort of route so I get where you’re coming from.
I’ve yet to interact a lot with beehaw so I reserve judgment on that front though. As you said, I think their defederation comes from a good place, having seen the same happen to a lot of mastodon instances.
I do know I certainly won’t be interested if beehaw turns into the same kind of abuse-ridden, toxic hellhole as the above, that’s for sure.
'Misbehaving ’ that says a lot about what’s really going on
Because they have community rules? It’s pretty normal for communities and online spaces to have rules and moderate those rules and if you misbehave aka ignore said rules, you get either your comment deleted or banned. Just like in real life, if you are at my house and you don’t follow my rules and just dig holes in my garden or destroy something because it’s fun, I will show you the door. Same goes for online places. The server/instance owner/host etc makes the rules
It seems like Beehaw want to create a closed community they can moderate. That kind of makes sense for their aims but they will need to defederate from more and more services to maintain that over time.
It seems a bit of a kneejerk in reaction to the influx of new users but essentially it means they’ll not be part of the fediverse, and they risk creating an echochamber. It’s rather the opposite of their stated aim of creating a diverse community, and will probably stymie their growth going forward.
They said that they want to federate but it isn’t feasible with current mod tools and that they made request for more dev tools. So hopefully they can federate again soon
Yeah, just seems they got overwhelmed by the amount of posts. I think that’s fair given all of us reddit refugees
“Risk creating an echo chamber”
That is not a bug, it’s a feature.
They made a post the other day about how they will ban anyone that is “part of a political group that enables bigotry”
I asked, since it seemed just poorly worded and vague by mistake but it sounded like they intend to ban anyone who associated with the republican party, even if the conversation was benign with no hate or bigotry in their comment history. (Yes I do know a couple Republicans that are not Dicks, just " Fiscally conservative " or whatever. I dont agree with them, but they aren’t homophobic or racists. On social issues they are pretty liberal. )
They responded confirming that was their intent and it was not a mistake.
That just isn’t healthy. I can understand not wanting to host /r/the_donald, but banning people for a comment eluding to a political affiliation just creates a bunch of people that are too sensitive to go outside.
There were people who voted for Nazis for “non-hateful” reasons, but it meant they didn’t care enough about the anti-jewish rhetoric to vote against it.
It’s the same for Republicans and trans people/Mexicans/etc. The party is full of hateful bigots, yes there are some people who are indifferent to the hatred spewed and stand with Republicans on some other basis, but indifference towards bigotry is an issue in and of itself.
Having a community explicitly ban people who support these bigoted groups (Republicans/Nazis/etc.) is not a problem. I prefer a space that allows people to share their views, I’ve debated self-identified fascists before, I’m fine in that environment, but I respect that some people aren’t.
Just because someone doesn’t want to engage with hateful communities only makes them “too sensitive to go outside” if “outside” is sympathetic to these hateful groups.
I absolutely dispise the current republican party. But equating them ALL to Nazis is ridiculous and inflammatory. A lot of Republicans hate Trump too. That is just who they were stuck with. Most of them regretted their vote and either didn’t vote, or voted for Biden in 2020, that’s why Biden won. Same as I felt about Joe Biden or Hillary. But trust me, I am not a Biden supporter. Everytime someone comes to me and is like "Did you see what your sleepy Biden did (or, more likely, didn’t) do?!? I get fucking annoyed, mostly because I agree with them, but also just because I’m not a republican doesn’t mean I’m a Biden supporter.
I, personally, don’t like to lump a mass of people into one giant stereotype and act like they are all the same. It goes against my personal ethics…
Just because someone doesn’t want to engage with hateful communities only makes them “too sensitive to go outside” if “outside” is sympathetic to these hateful groups.
I specifically said I agree they shouldn’t have to host something like r/the_donald, but they said they would ban anyone who even eluded to being republican without any hate or bigotry involved. If you don’t see the hivemind and division created if a mass community isolates themselves from any opposing views I don’t know what to tell you. I found myself losing perspective of the hivemind mentality if I spent to much time on Reddit. It just seems silly to create that problem associated with this form of social media on purpose.
They have a right to a “safe space”. I have a right to call it unhealthy, unproductive, and stupid.
I didn’t equate them all to Nazis, you have an incredibly simplistic black/white view of the world.
The people who voted for Nazis weren’t a uniform mass of people. Some voted for them on promised economic reforms, some voted on the basis of making Germany great again, some voted for them because they disliked the Lügenpresse (lying press), which the Nazis talked about all the time. The thing all Nazi voters shared was that the anti-Jewish/anti-communist rhetoric didn’t turn them off to voting for the party.
Similarly, there are a ton of Republicans who vote Republican for many reasons; promised economic reforms, making America great again, a dislike for “fake news”, etc. The thing all Republican voters share is that the anti-Mexican/anti-trans rhetoric doesn’t turn them off to voting for the party.
They’re fine with the promise of building a wall to keep the Mexicans out. They’re fine with legislating against trans people. They’re fine with the rhetoric many southern Republicans are using about “solving the trans problem”, similar to the final solution rhetoric Nazis used.
Republicans in 2023 are about as bad as Nazis were in 1930. That is to say, they’ve only done very lightweight rounding up of minorities and haven’t started killing them en masse. Whether or not the fascist wing of the Republican party wins out and successfully genocides minorities is anyone’s guess, but ignoring the similarities and history here is incredibly foolish.
Not all people who voted Republican are horrible. Not all people who voted Nazi were horrible either. The platform can get better or worse, we’ve seen a history where it can get worse, but it’s also been shutdown before.
Either way, having spaces online that disallow protofascist or fascist parties is fine and not “unhealthy”. Not every part of the internet has to allow for hateful rhetoric, it’s fine to have spaces geared towards gaming, community, or just people in agreement that people supporting a bigoted party shouldn’t be there.
they want a “safe space” lol
I am actually happy to see that Lemmy is a much safer space than Reddit. And I can understand any move to keep it safer.
This doesn’t sound in line with the moderator reasoning on the source post. They wanted better moderation tools to handle the influx of new users. Sure one can read between the lines as much as they want… doesn’t make it anything more than a wild accusation.
deleted by creator
Hey I am just going to throw this out into the ether, I have been on the lemmy instances longer than beehaw, and I have yet to find an instance whos admin team I would trust less with their stated reasoning. I would not trust their stated reasoning and if I had to guess they are trying to get Lemmy.world to change something to come into line with them. if you ask me you have dodged a bullet. I hope lemmy.world stands strong
THANK YOU THIS RIGHT HERE ! Dude how the fuck is anyone else not seeing this?
You’re not wrong… beehaw admins literally have a list of demands.
I’m okay with letting their community push out reasonable users as it festers in its toxic positivity and hypersensitivity turned into toxic hostility to nonconformity.
It’s far from a safe place. If you so much as ask for clarification of a rule you will be labeled by their admins and toxic community as outing yourself as a bigot who doesn’t belong there.
Whether or not it’s how it started, it feels like the most toxic users from shit reddit says migrated to beehaw under the guise of a safe place for the LGBTQI+ community.
Someone needs to make a regularly updated map of which instances are federated with which other instances.
Edit: Ok, apparently there’s one here but there’s over 600 instances and trying to show the connections between all of them destroys your browser.
This should be pinned IMO, it was confusing to see the announcement but still see the posts.
Hopefully we can re-create good Gaming and Technology communities here.
I came up with a list of examples to explain this, but I can’t see to add them to the post. I’m having a really hard time posting today. So here they are in a comment. I think this helps show exactly what’s going on.
Examples
If this still doesn’t make sense, then try the following examples. I hope being able to see defederation in action makes this a little more clear.
Beehaw Communities
We’re going to use gaming@beehaw.org as an example of what happens to beehaw communities
Here are three links:
- https://beehaw.org/c/gaming/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
- https://lemmy.world/c/gaming@beehaw.org/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
- https://lemmy.ml/c/gaming@beehaw.org/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
The first link is the beehaw gaming community as hosted on beehaw. All of these are sorted by new, because it makes it very obvious when defederation went into effect. You can see that there are several new posts.
The second link is the beehaw gaming community as hosted on lemmy.world. You can see that all the posts before defederation (5 hours ago at time of writing) are the same as the beehaw one. But now, none of new posts are visible. We no longer get updates from the “true” version on beehaw. There are some new posts there, but all are posted by lemmy.world users. And the posts from lemmy.world users are not visible on beehaw.
The final link is to the beehaw gaming community as hosted on lemmy.ml. This is identical to the beehaw.org community, as the “true” version is on beehaw.org, the one that gets updated on other communities is the “true” version.
Lemmy.world communities
We’ll use the lemmyworld base community as an example:
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https://beehaw.org/c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
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https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyworld/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
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https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
The first post is the version of this community as hosted on beehaw.org. You can see from 5 hours ago, there are no more posts. That’s because they no longer receive the “true” version of this community. Someone on there could still post, but then it would only be visible to other people on beehaw.org.
The second shows it as hosted on lemmy.world. We can see all the posts. The last link shows it as hosted on lemmy.ml, and we can see it’s the same as the lemmy.world version. The “true” version is on lemmy.world, so lemmy.ml keeps up with the updated version.
Third instance communities
Finally, we have the example of communities that are on instances that have not been defederated by beehaw.org.
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https://beehaw.org/c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
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https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/data_type/Post/sort/New/page/1
We can see all three of these versions look pretty similar. That’s because for the most part they are. We are identical with lemmy.ml, as lemmy.ml hosts the “true” version, and we get all updates from the “true” version. Beehaw.org will not get posts/comments from us, so beehaw actually doesn’t have the most “true” version of this community.
Comment example
I found this one really entertaining:
This is the same post hosted on three different instances. Since the community is on lemmy.ml, the “true” version of this post is the lemmy.ml one.
It was posted by a beehaw.org user AFTER defederation, but it’s still visible to lemmy.world users, since the community it was posted to is lemmy.ml, not beehaw.org. We can comment on it, and those comments are sent to the “true” version on lemmy.ml (and then shared to the wider fediverse). However, comments from lemmy.world are NOT sent to the version of this post on beehaw.org.
When I found this example, there were only two comments on this post, both from lemmy.world users. So the poster did not get an initial response because of defederation.
This makes it super confusing as to whether or not someone will actually be able to interact with your post/comment. You’d have to constantly check the user you are replying to is not @beehaw.org
Perhaps lemmy.world should defederate from beehaw.org? That would solve this UX problem?
We really shouldn’t. That wouldn’t actually solve any issues. It just means that the versions of posts we’re looking at on other instances aren’t “true”.
Beehaw is defederating incorrectly. The best thing to do is to abandon them (considering the size of lemmy.world, that’s what’s likely to happen). It should not be common practice to retaliate with more defederation.
Beehaw is defederating incorrectly. The best thing to do is to abandon them (considering the size of lemmy.world, that’s what’s likely to happen). It should not be common practice to retaliate with more defederation.
Could you expand your thinking here? What is defederating correctly mean to you? What does abandoning them look like vs retaliating with defederation?
Just think how fun it will be with people telling you to “read the thread” when you can even see it and dont know it exists.
All I needed to know form this is that I can block and unsubscribe from all beehaw communities and look for new ones hosted on other instances. If I ever want to see beehaw stuff I will create an account there. For now, I am happy I am part of lemmy.world as I am not a fan of heavy moderation. As long as there is a way of downvoting, I have absolut trust in the community to regulate itself.
In fact, this is a big problem for me in beehaw. They took away the power for the community to self-regulate by removing downvoting and instead want a centrally moderated and controlled “safe space”. Which is fine for some I guess but definitely not for me. If I see trolls, bigots, etc. I just downvote and move on. Some people get affected way more about it than others I guess.
This is what I did… I have an account on beehaw, but I had to unsubscribe to communities like Futurama@lemmy.world on my beehaw account because it is now unfederated… and I opened an account on lemmy.world and now subscribe to Futurama here.
But this means I have 2 accounts now, one on beehaw for general browsing and all communities from lemmy.ml or lemmy.ca etc, and an account on LW for a couple of communities…
I understand federation, but in a way it’s not without problem.
I’m fine with not being able to vote or comment, but not being able to see new posts is mega stupid. Now I have to go make a new account on a new instance that’s federated if I don’t want to miss anything. Ugh
**Thank you **for the excellent and detailed explanation in both post and this comment! This helped me so much to better understand how lemmy works and what the implications can be. It is especially useful and interesting to see it demonstrated on a current example, although that’s a sad circumstance.
I have only one last question. What happens if they ever decide to re-federate? How will these desynced threads merge? Will votes merge? Will users know content is merged or will that be another cause for confusion?
Post saved, great resource. :)
On the bright side, at least I have drama content to read. Maybe this thing can replace reddit… lol
Looks pretty dumb to me, but hey if they want a walled community they have the right to have it.
It doesn’t align with me and it makes me super happy of being here instead of there.
Thanks a lot for the explanation and also your other example comment, super useful!
As for me, I’ll simply unjoin their communities and find the same somewhere else, I feel a bit sad tho for open users there that will have to create a new account somewhere else.
I’ve got to say I’m really frustrated with this. Beehaw ignored or denied my registration so I joined here, spent time curating a feed and now I guess I lose out on a substantial amount of that?
Which server is going to cut off my stuff next?
Profoundly frustrating and discouraging. I don’t know what server to recommend to people so that they can get the most content.
Beehaw instance owners:
Oh wow. That is just vile from them.
I would love to see some specific examples of the so called “trolls” from lemmy.world that trolled them. But defederating an entire instance, nearly 20k users, due to the actions of very few users just seems extreme.
join-lemmy.org should probably add the info that beehaw is very strict in their decentralization/federation, so much so that they are becoming just another walled garden.
This is not to say that I agree with low-effort content, trolls or alt-right people. They should be blocked and even possibly banned. But this should be done on an individual basis. They categorizing an entire instance as “unworthy”. We have names for these kind of generalizations.
Not even a week on here and there’s already fragmenting drama. Yikes.
Beehaw sounds like a really toxic, Professor Umbridge-type place.
Exactly!
I like the fact that it has down voting disabled.
That’s not always a good thing. Some posts need to be downvoted.
Like everything in /c/conservative.
I really like that I can easily see upvotes vs downvotes. I’m not a reddit expert, but Apollo just showed the total/average/etc.
reddit used to show it
no they don’t. if it’s a stupid take it should be able to stand out to be mocked and flamed or at least discussed. it’s where learning happens and echo chambers dissolve. if it’s truly psychotic it can be deleted.
They should just be reported to the mods. Or better yet, just don’t upvote comments you don’t like. There is no karma on lemmy
I was a mod on an advice sub on reddit, this is a terrible idea.
It was enough work as a mod to sift through things that actually needed to be reported. For advice, downvotes are needed to express when something is genuinely bad advice. It can’t be up to mods to sift through every single comment, that’d be impossible.
Just don’t upvote bad advise and leave a comment of why it is bad. Downvoting has negative effects on the behavior of a community. It allows the majority to turn on the minority (sometimes the minority is wrong but still)
“i like the fact that i cant have an opinion”
Sorry what? Downvotes have always been useless for me personally.
Did you like youtube removing the dislikes? Having a negative opinion is just as important as a positive one. We could remove all voting like this.
Your welcome to have a negative option. However if you disagree with someone either ignore them or tell them why you disagree.
On the flipside you could just upvote comments you agree with.
Not every criticism has to be constructive. Do you tell the schef why the food sucks exactly if you dont like it? No. You just say “fuck this” and leave or ask the waiter to take it back because its bad. Not the best example but you get the point. You dont just ignore everything you dont like. I dont understand what people think the difference is, between up and downvoting. They are both the exact same. One point up, or minus one point. Each is just as valid as the other.
Beehaw is a safe place without trolls/fascists/racists/etc so they’ve just protected themselves from toxic trolls from lemmygrad or LW, that’s it.
Found the informant. And they think EVERYTHING is racist ect
Seems like they’re just using the wrong software? A private forum is more in line with what they want it seems.
